39 posts tagged “saturn return”

...is now a couple of plays.

I'll admit it. I miss every chance handed to me because I'm not ready at that time. And then it is too late.

Here's a non-astro example: I don't drive. When I was 16, I was a spoiled brat...well, I still am (Taurus), but my parents would have bought me a car had I learned how to drive then like I should have. Talk about a missed opportunity, right? I could have had it very easy if I'd just sucked it up and drove like everyone else on the right timeline. But I'm an idiot who panics and cries and crashes, and thus I wasted it. Everyone who's tried to teach me has gotten fed up or terrified or both very fast, within 3 sessions of me behind the wheel, and now I'm pretty much out of people for practicing with unless I pay them. (And since a paid instructor is what screwed me up in the first place, I really don't feel like giving another one a chance. Though to be fair, even if I paid someone, I'd still need a free volunteer for more practice after the sessions were over.)

Even if now, today, I decided really and for truly I WILL DRIVE GODDAMMIT, I am pretty well out of support from others in order to do it. I scared the shit out of everyone who wanted to help me, and they had enough. And you can't do it alone, argh. Total wasted opportunity. I wasn't ready to drive when the window of support was open, and now it's shut and I probably will never manage at this point.

This is why I tell everyone with kids to teach their kids from the age of 8 or 12 or something. They really need to ALREADY KNOW HOW to drive BEFORE the official lessons start. My parents insisted on Being Legal and we have all lived to regret that choice.

This comment is sadly me:

Ever see a person who failed their first Saturn Return and were unable to transition into adult responsibilities? Someone who missed the point of the individuation and spiritualization process of the midlife set of transits? Ever see someone who has missed the point of the Chiron return at 51 or the second Saturn return at 59? All these are psychological and spiritual growth experiences. There is just something empty about these people, failed potential, lost opportunities.

I am empty and a failure. Whee. I still can't figure out adulthood. I didn't get my shit together. I was too busy dealing with Dad-dying stuff to grab life by the scruff of the neck and make it do what I like at the right age and time. Now that I have the time, I can't get myself to move on it for shit. Or to even figure out step A. Step A, of course, is driving, because you can't do anything in the world (outside of my town anyway, which is one of the few places in America where a non-driver can exist and survive on their own) without a car and driving it a LOT.

*sigh*

Here.

Another stuck person, Not sure what to make of this.

I related more to this podcast, which featured a woman with a family who wants to go on tour with her husband, but should she have a more boring and stable job? Naturally, she's in the Saturn Return...

I liked how they did this: they analyzed how many elements she had of rebellion/independence in her chart (Mars in Aries in 10th, sun opposite Pluto (Pluto in 7th square Mars in 10th), Gemini ascendant) versus the elements of the status quo (Moon/Saturn in Virgo in 4th, Jupiter in Cancer in 2nd. Of course, she's right in the middle between the two. Uck.

They said that squares are a call to action/crisis invoked, but oppositions are more tension that doesn't have an immediate answer.

Interesting read.

I am probably more than just a bystander in this.  That is, it’s occurred to me that he cannot go any further without me. He has already gone as far as he can go without me and vice versa. It just takes both of us to fulfill the destiny.  So here I am signed on and guess what? I feel as daunted as I ever.

It is not enough to make me turn away though. I’m convinced if I turn away I will be right back where I am eventually. In a week? In another 28 years? In another life?

Natal chart and analysis over here. I'm amused at his talk about stuff- so Taurean.

The last interview he did has a Saturn Return story in it:

I was always swimming against the tide. I was always out of step. Not only did I quit school, but I got kicked out of three schools along the way. I eventually got asked to leave the air force a year early—it wasn’t dishonorable, but it was a general discharge, which is a step down—because I did not shape up, I didn’t like authority, I had three court-martials. I was kicked off the alter boys, I was kicked off the choirboys, I was kicked out of the boy scouts, I was kicked out of summer camp. I never fit and I didn’t like conforming. And sometimes it just broke through the membrane, and I was out.

By the end of the 60s, all of my friends, the musician friends of mine, had gone through a transition in their dress, and especially in their music, and what I noticed was that all of these great artists—Bob Dylan, Buffalo Springfield, Joan Baez—all of these people were using their art to express themselves politically and socially. And I was not. I was still doing people-pleasing.

I was 30, and I resonated much more truly with the 20-year-olds. I was more in line with them than I was with these people I was entertaining in nightclubs. I began to notice that. I began to be affected by it, and along the way, the judicious use of some mescaline and some LSD managed to accelerate the process. It gave me more of an insight into how false the world was I was settling for, and to see that there was something much richer and better and more authentic. And those changes happened, they just—they happened naturally and organically. It took about 2 years for the total changeover to occur.

My beard got a little longer, the hair got a little longer, the clothing changed, and then I suddenly found myself being as—the best combination of both, this person I really was who was kind of out of step, antiauthoritarian, who also had these skills and talents that he was honing to express himself. And so I started expressing those feelings.

So Elsa's talking lately about her son's best friend, who periodically dumps him and then comes crawling back.

"Now as it happens the quirky Aquarian has Moon Saturn conjunct in Aries. That’s no fun so I have some sympathy for this kid. He is bound to be acting something out. Rejecting Vid, as he has been rejected himself for example.

This turns out to be true. Poor kiddo.

A sorta-related story from another moon square Saturn person...Saturn Return is a big focus here.

"For my early twenties, Saturn brought me kids, too–a mess of them! I’d never wanted to be a mom at all. When the subject of children came up, I had my favorite line: “Children are no good until they’re old enough to threaten.” I meant it, more or less. I didn’t like kids. I don’t know if my biological clock would have disturbed me later in life, but it didn’t get the chance. At 22, I was pregnant and married a man with custody of his two children. I was senselessly in love with him, or I’d never have gone for it! I went from a single person to a married mother-of-three within the span of a month. And all this committing was in the middle of the first in a series of custody hearings, thank you very much. That’s a good way to learn about growing up, too, let me tell ya.

And when I was 28…well, that’s when we lost custody of my husband’s two kids in the third custody hearing…kids whom by then I had spent several years mothering and loved dearly. I believed they were going to a crazy, violent environment. I knew in my gut we would not be allowed to see them once the scrutiny of the court wasn’t pushing visitation. And the kicker? My stepdaughter, at 8, helped orchestrate it on the sly. In court, we heard a school paper called “The Greatest Day of My Life about her leaving. Ow. We got a letter from her about how she wanted her new stepfather to adopt her because she didn’t want to be in our family any more.Ow. Knowing it wasn’t really coming from her only helped slightly.
I was devastated. We were all devastated Overnight, half of our family disappeared; my 4-year-old started having nightmares. It hit us all, and hard.
True to my prediction, the kids were moved out of state and kept from all contact with us. Saturn + Pisces = family disappearing and reappearing acts. (I have also experienced the disappearing family phenomena with three brothers, who still don’t speak to me because of religious differences.) The separation from my stepkids lasted exactly seven years.
They also reappeared again, pretty much overnight. We got a call late one Fourth of July from our stepdaughter totally out of the blue. And we had a brief chance to connect with our stepson during that time, until he disappeared again.
My stepdaughter ended up moving in with us, and that was a wild ride! Her affection for us came and went in unpredictable cycles and, as far as I can determine, still does. Whether we’re in contact with her at a given time or not, sometimes she’s emotionally present, and other times, any interaction has simply become a vehicle to get something from us. At times the relationship went beyond stormy to being a major disruption in our lives, and at certain points, we’ve had to completely detach to keep from being pulled under. So you’ve got Saturn and Pisces, service and suffering, tied up with emotional, maternal moon energy. Many tears have been cried, you know?
Now? Well, I’m 42. Uh oh. My stepson has again disappeared recently, angry over something, but I have no idea what. He’s twenty. Wonder if he’ll be gone until his Saturn return?
My stepdaugher, who has disappeared and reappeared so many times I’ve lost count, is in a “reappearing” phase and wants to be my best buddy. The hot and cold has been excruciating."

OUCH.

• First Saturn square.
• First Saturn opposition.

Continued from here:

• Video- Henry's example.
• Video- Elsa's Saturn Return.
• Video- client's example.

Looks like it's becoming a whole dang series. I haven't gotten around to watching the videos yet, but I might as well post some links.

1. "People get pretty pissed when I make audacious statements like, “If you screw up your Saturn return at 29, your next chance comes at about 57 years old.”
   However, stories like this show just how true this is."

2. Video- reality does not create reality.

3. "If you want an example, consider the man who lives with his Mom beyond his Saturn return. Is he all the sudden going to move out when he is 33? No. I’ve never seen it, not even once. If he does move, it is to be with another mother figure and then right back to Mom in very short order. When does he get a chance to separate?
   Most likely when she dies… making him about 57."

4. "I don’t mean to doom him. I just think there is a point of maturity and once you go beyond it you don’t get any taller… until Saturn comes around again."
5. "What I am doing is noting the limitations when I see them because I’ll be damned if that door does not slam shut. It does slam shut."
6. "Saturn is pure. You are asked to do something that is hard… to persevere. There is pressure to define whatever the area or life is in play, to place “appropriate” boundaries, to take responsibility etc."
7. Video- demystifying the Saturn Return.
8. And this one is the real crotch-kicker:
   

When I was 28 I knew about astrology and I knew about Saturn returns. I believed at the time that what “Saturn” meant was that you had to grow up and be responsible, and what I did was, I went back to graduate school, got serious about being a grownup and a parent and spent the next 15 years trying as hard as I could to make something out of my life and being as responsible as I could to my husband, my mother, my brother, my child, the mortgage and society.
It was a mistake. I was buried, I should have stuck with my guitar. And myself.

Maybe most people think that what they picked on their Saturn return was a mistake, because they *didn’t* pick the other thing. So maybe the thing about Saturn is this, Elsa: your Saturn return is the only moment in your life that you have the *entire* world at your feet. One time offer only: you’ve got the time and the energy and the goodwill of the world so make a big wish.
When you’re 35, 40, 50, you look back and say damn, I could have done anything, and I did this.”

Elsa's response...

"As for having the entire world at your feet at the time of your Saturn return, this sounds upside down to me. It is more as if a person is presented with a mountain… not just a mountain but their mountain and they are expected to climb it. This puts them down not up and in your case it sounds as if you possibly climbed another person’s mountain which is easy to do.
For example, I started to identify myself as an astrologer at the time of my Saturn return. No one in the world thinks this is a great career path however I AM an astrologer in every cell of my body so I took this lonely road.
It’s many years later and while I have been punished by a society which disrespects astrology all along, I am deeply satisfied as I know for sure this is my right path and you can see the integrity in that. So the point of the Saturn return is not to meet society’s expectations but to locate your own compass and have the courage to get your ass up the hill.
The idea is to be the adult you are not the adult someone else says you should be and if you don’t manage this… well you are going to be compromised it’s just the way it is."

*sigh*

I definitely feel like an SR LOSER (with the hand gesture at the forehead, no less) reading all of this stuff. I don't like knowing that I will have to make up my own path with no vision (I can't visualize for SHIT). And to some degree it's just goddamned easier to climb someone else's mountain when everyone else is climbing it and you know what the layout is and where the end is. My mountain is pea soup foggy from the getgo and nobody else is climbing it and I don't want to be climbing it blind.

More from the last link in the comments...

"You know, something else I wanted to say was that this is all very generational/historical. We started with the kid who stays with his mom. In some cultures, at some points in history, this was the responsible option if the mom is a widow, which she often is. Or to work in the family business. Or to marry the stable guy your family adores instead of the lead guitarist. Or to get a steady job instead of writing your novel and living on ramen.
Women especially have to take this pretty seriously. To decide you want a career instead of children wasn’t even an option 100 years ago, and 100 years ago you’d be crazy to run off to the circus. Seriously crazy, a bad woman, an outcast…etc.
So when I was 28 this is what “getting serious about your life” meant. It meant giving up your childish fantasies, realizing you had to make something of yourself *in your society*. In my environment there weren’t that many women guitarists. There were a whole lot of comfortable wives, housewives and MBA’s though. You could either marry the law firm partner or get yourself an MBA. That was it, man. Those were the choices."